Author Comment Kung Fu Dude  Hawk Posts: 270 (9/27/01 1:31:23 pm) Why is anime so special? I've always wondered what it was about anime that makes people argue over it so much on boards like these. Why are there so many anime fanatics out there, as opposed to people who take to western animation? I mean, is anime any better than western animation? Is the art better? The storylines? The pacing? Both styles have their good and bad points, so why is there a forum dedicated to Japanese cartoons, instead of just "cartoons"? MaestroNightsong  Tiger Posts: 388 (9/27/01 2:47:41 pm) Re: Why is anime so special? In my personal opinion, the art style used in anime is indeed better than current 'western' style, most of which is dedicated to making the most childish-looking, poorly drawn stuff available. Hell, they've made crappy drawing INTO a style. The storylines? Certainly; anime as a whole is dedicated to an older audience than western cartoons - the ones that aren't, such as digimon and pokemon, get as little attention here as the little kid-centric western ones. Now, there are exceptions to the rule, of course, but on the whole anime is better. *shrugs* You may as well ask why we don't have a Xenogears forum, instead of just an "Other RPGs" forum. Hey, actually, maybe we.... well, no, maybe not. glarryg  Tiger Posts: 308 (9/27/01 7:09:11 pm) Re: Why is anime so special? Ren and Stimpy, The Tick, Sam and Max, Futurama, Family Guy, The Simpsons. Off the top of my head, these six have at least one quality or one defining moment that I'd hold above any Japanese cartoon I've seen to date. The problem is that most of them have been cancelled or are past their prime, and shows like them are few and far between. Without the occasional gems like these shows, there isn't much within Western animation that appeals to cartoon watchers in the "high school and above" age group. Which is probably why anime is becoming more popular these days. Those of us who grew up with cartoons want something that "speaks to us"... so to speak. MaestroNightsong  Tiger Posts: 396 (9/27/01 7:29:26 pm) Re: Why is anime so special? Yeah, like I said, exceptions to the rule. They ARE few and far between, and it's very, very sad... because they all kick ass. Of course, those are all comedies; Japanese Animation is about the only place where the art form is given over to dramatic plots as well. Blackers Lion Posts: 219 (9/27/01 7:49:19 pm) Re: Why is anime so special? G.I. Joe rocked it hard. I own the special collector's edition DVD of G.I. Joe: The Movie and I want to buy some of the VHSes of the episodes. Just as soon as I get some money. (Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow ROCKED YOU) BrokenPotty  Hawk Posts: 19 (9/27/01 8:18:01 pm) Re: Why is anime so special? anime is in some ways a better or even more advanced cartoon, it uses more complex plot devices and tackles more intense subject matter, just like movies...except for the fact that anime can be even better than movies because they are for the most part, cheaper to make. plus it opens up room for more fantastic fight scenes and can create many different characters, something actors cant do w/out makeup. and the voice acting, when done well is just as good as any oscar winning preformance demmed worthy of hollywood, now dont get me wrong i like western style films and shows as well, but anymore theyre all over the same thing, and like i said earlier anime offers more in depth choices, the only other choice to a decent mode of film is independent films which for some reason not too many ppl like... i think ive said enough as my fingers are getting tired hope that anwsers any questions, this is just my oponion though tahnks for the time Kung Fu Dude  Hawk Posts: 271 (9/28/01 11:54:24 am) Hmm... I think the problem is that Western animation isn't inherently worse than anime, it's just that the producers of western animation still believe that only kids watch that kind of stuff. In one of the recent issues of Wizard magazine, they listed the top 100 cartoons of all time. There were like six anime cartoons listed (Gudam Wing, Evangelion, Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball Z, G-Force, and Voltron; seven if you count Thundercats as anime). Also, I can only remember a few western cartoons that were meant for an older audience: Spawn, TV Funhouse, The Simpsons, and Space Ghost Coast to Coast. Now, the thing is that animation, whether east or west, can be as good or bad as live action. There are certainly good and bad cartoons, as there are good and bad live-action shows. By the way, are there any non-anime Japanese shows worth watching, besides Iron Chef? Sort of to reiterate what was said, western animation storylines tend to be geared toward kids, as eastern animation caters itself to a wide audience. Maybe the US's fixation with marketing has something to do with that, as animated shows are easier to make toys out of than live-action, perhaps. Then again, maybe Japan is guilty of the same thing. I haven't seen how Japanese marketing works, but I'll bet it's similar to the US. With drawing styles, the Japanese almost always have big eyes, small mouths, and the good guys are always beautiful. So beautiful that you sometimes can't tell the guys apart from the girls. In western animation, they tend to focus more on musculature... Actually, I really can't say what's different between the two, besides how faces are portrayed. Animation quality seems to be better in Japan than America, though. Now, I don't know how much of this is right and how much of it I pulled out of my ass, as I don't watch too many cartoons myself. I just know that Mobile Suit Gundam is easily comparable to something like He-Man. Outlaw Star could easily have been written be an American. Agree? Disagree? Isn't that the whole point? IcyBrian  Dragon Posts: 238 (9/28/01 1:43:46 pm) ezSupporter Re: Hmm... Personally, I'm a huge animation buff. Historically, I tend to lean towards western animation. Like Night said, though, lately the western companies have turned bad animation into an artform. There have been very few new animated series lately that haven't been bad. My favorite animated series of all time were Gargoyles, G.I. Joe, and X-Men (I have every episode on tape for all of those.) There's also series like Spiderman, Rescue Rangers, Darkwing Duck, etc. that rocked. Actually, up until a few years ago, just about every Disney animated series was good. A couple years ago, the WB made an animated miniseries called Invasion America which was geared toward an older audience. I loved it, and thought it was one of the better pieces of animation I'd seen in a while. But after that, nothing really followed. It was sort of a one time deal. My main problems with anime, and the reasons why I'm not a huge fanatic, are the dialogue and the voice acting. In my opinion, most anime dialogue is lame and cheesy. I want to see dialogue that is more realistic than most of what we get from Japanese animation. The dubbing on most of the anime we get in the states is terrible. But rather than buy a subtitled version, I want to hear the anime get a good dub job. So, what is it that I really want to see? I want to see an animated movie/series which was written by an American writer and animated by a Japanese animation company. For me, that would be the ultimate, because you'd get the best of both worlds. Believable dialogue, intriguing plot, and kick ass animation. Who knows. Maybe when I'm a big-time writer/director/producter, I'll be the one to head up that project. Something to look forward to, I suppose. Human12 Tiger Posts: 286 (9/28/01 10:22:37 pm) anime There are plenty of good American cartoons. Gargoyles (I wonder if that was ever imported to Japan, and what they thought about it), Batman (TAS, Beyond, etc.) X-Men, Spiderman... the list goes on. Then again, Japan has stuff like Cowboy Bebop, and Evangelion, and Serial Experiment: Lain, and Slayers, and Princess Mononoke, and other stuff that makes me wet my pants just thinking about. Anime is less censored, more integral, and they actually respect voice actors over there. You can't beat it. Kung Fu Dude  Hawk Posts: 273 (9/29/01 10:24:30 am) Really? (I need to think of better subject titles) I don't know about Japanese animation being any less or more censored than American animation. I do know that Amirecan animation isn't censored at all. They just never make the offending scenes in the first place. I know that whenever a Japanese show comes over here, it's often edited for content, but I guess that's because we're more protective of our children. But then again, is it really a big deal if there's less blood or swears than there could be? If it gets the point across sans the offending material, then no one should complain. Japanese animation more integral? What does that mean? They do respect the voice-actors in America. At least I think so. They certainly seemed to respect the voice-actors in Samurai Jack. I don't know if more respect = better voice acting, but I think American voice-acting is just fine. Human12 Tiger Posts: 287 (9/29/01 12:00:35 pm) ... I screwed up while editing it. Integral was, um, from a dead sentence. CorruptDictatorNumber2 Icy's Sexy Kitten Posts: 7 (10/14/01 1:40:24 am) Anime *is* great. ^_^ Well now. There were some really great American shows. Rocko's Modern Life is the first one I think of because I *loved* that show...I think it's the best American cartoon I've seen. And let me tell you, it wasn't because of beautiful animation--it was the great writing. I have found, though, that the answer to just about every question in the original post is yes. I have seen VERY few American cartoons with [good] plots, while Escaflowne (get used to it--it's my favorite series, I'm gonna mention it a million times) has a very involved and intriguing plot. BOY, that sounded cheezy. ANYWAY... The DBZ writers wouldn't have known a plot if it bit them, so don't think of that as your main base for anime. As for animation, there are some anime serieses (DAH! What is the plural of that word?!) that have some pretty sucky animation, but on the whole, it's better than American animation. I'm including Disney in this. Besides, they do half their stuff with computers now. (Cheaters!) If you need proof, watch X. (that's the X/1999 movie) And the characters are MUCH deeper than the ones in American cartoons... I mean, think about it. Disney. The bad guy is the bad guy and they're bad through and through. But in Mononoke, the "bad guy"--Lady Eboshi--is bad because she tears down the forest in search of iron. But then we find out that she took in all the prostitutes and lepers so they could have jobs in her town... and all the women really look up to her because they saved her from that life. So she's really not bad! OOO... I'm sure you see my point now that I've babbled on for so long... LOL glarryg  Mana Maniac Posts: 337 (10/14/01 4:07:45 pm) Re: Anime *is* great. ^_^ Yeah, Rocko was cool. And Time Squad is pretty good; it's got pop culture references that kids would never get (Benny Hill, anyone?). The plural form of "series" is "series." MaestroNightsong  Ranting Rascal Posts: 547 (10/14/01 5:32:23 pm) Re: Anime *is* great. ^_^ Rocko was awesome, I'll readily admit. However, it also had really good animation, which I thought just further improved it. I must be the only man in America who thinks South Park looks STUPID, and would be about twice as funny if the people on it had made it a real cartoon. I feel the same way even about shows like Dexter's Laboratory. I love the show, but it would just be cooler with good animation. Jayson Mothball Avenger Posts: 58 (10/14/01 11:25:31 pm) Re: Anime *is* great. ^_^ I like it because it deals with more mature storylines, and the characters aren't all animated animals. You ever try to write about a rabbit smashing a coyote with a mallet? It's impossible. But anime goes off into what western animation considers "forbidden territory"- mature storylines, human characters, and they don't care what happens. It's easy to identify with a human character. If it, however, has extremely bad dubbing, I hate it- but just for the dubbing. But I can't make up my mind if getting subtitled anime with the original voices is better than the dubbed version- that is, versions where the dubbing fits the character's mouths. Go figure. glarryg  Mana Maniac Posts: 340 (10/15/01 8:13:29 am) Re: Anime is *great*. ^_^ You're not alone, Night. South Park is pretty annoying to watch... and listen to. If they had hired real voice actors, it might be a little more bearable. MasterOdin1980  Ye Olde Bearded Dude Posts: 237 (10/15/01 3:33:57 pm) Re: Anime is *great*. ^_^ That's why whenever I get an anime I always look for one with subtitles. Heh. And people wonder why I'm such a fast reader. Balraznor  Squeal Like A Pig! Posts: 9 (10/15/01 10:41:35 pm) Re: Anime is *great*. ^_^ I feel so happy... I got the first Lain on Dvd... mmmm Lain "This is big, but not as big as GOD"- a sign in front of a boat store 0rion 5  Hawk Posts: 158 (10/17/01 11:14:57 pm) Re: Why is anime so special? Hmm...... Anime is special, because it gives you that tingly feeling, like the feeling you get when when you go on a ride, like the ones at the carnival, or the squeaky feeling you get from a bubble bath, or the feeling you get when you first eat cheese........................... or maybe it's just what everybody else said............... Probably what everybody else said................................ Tomoyochan13 Hawk Posts: 22 (10/23/01 12:11:12 am) Re: Why is anime so special? 9 words Serial Expirements: Lain, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Tenchi Muyo and Ranma 1/2. They all rock. But Western animation is worse than it used to be, and if you don't beleive it, from Rocko, to Spongebob Squarepants, from Simpsons to Kingo fo the Hill, I think that EVERYTHING was better between 1995-1997, Video Games, Cartoons, anything... now everything is being aimed towards the children... which, as Kerney from the Simpsons said "Big mistake." I like how Animes have the mixture between the Seriousness and the comedy, to the other extreme, American cartoons are good only for a laugh, or to some extent, a chuckle. And, as until recently, I've gone to the Subtitles, because after seeing Shadow Skill (one of my least favorite animes, for now until, well, for a little while anyway.) The dubbing was horrid. A favorite of mine now would be Cowboy Bebop. In fact, I like all of Adult Swim on Cartoon Network, "Home Movies" Hilarious "Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law" Hilarious "Aqua Team Hunger Force" Hilarious, "The Brak Show", "SG:C2C" are all friggin funny, and to top it all off, Cowboy bebop, which is just breathtaking, the only thing that made me angry is that they took out sessions 6 and 8. so to summarize, Adult Swim rocks, Anime rocks, and as stated before, Western cartoons have their moments, but not enough, thank you for letting me waste your time. CorruptDictatorNumber2 Icy's Sexy Kitten Posts: 9 (10/23/01 7:58:28 pm) Invader ZIM I haven't had time to ever watch Time Squad. Pop culture references reminds me of Freakazoid, though. That was pretty good too. And I musn't forget Invader ZIM!!! That show is so wonderful!!! "Zim? Weren't you banished to Foodcourtia? Shouldn't you be frying something right now?" "Oh, I quit that when I heard about all this." "........ You QUIT...being BANISHED?" "You can't leave me out of Operation Impending Doom 2! I was in Operation Impending Doom 1!!" "Oh yes, we remember..." (flashbackiness) (Zim sits at the main controls of a giant robot) "Hahahaha! We'll destroy them all!" "But sir, we're still on our home planet!" "Silence, you! Twist those knobs! Twist those knobs! And YOU, pull those levers!" (The giant robot proceeds to blow up a city...) (end flashback) (Zim is looking intensley at his feet) "I put the fires out..." "ZIM, you made the fires WORSE." "Worse.....or better?" IcyBrian  Hollywood Dragon Posts: 371 (10/23/01 8:18:53 pm) ezSupporter Re: Invader ZIM Invader ZIM!! Hehe, that show rocks. I watched about six episodes with some friends a while back. I have no idea when it's on, though, or even if it's still on at all. Anyone know? ~Brian ChildofLavos Hawk Posts: 17 (11/1/01 11:48:33 pm) I dunno, something.... brian, Invader Zim is still on, i just have no clue when, and Tomoyo Chan, ever figure out lain or are u still confuzed? Also... anyone seen Kite? That RULES!!!!!! Lotsa purty explosions n' stuff, i would highly recommend it, that and Sol Bianca, great stuff and a fairly competend dubbing job too. *gasp!!!!!* Tomoyochan13 Hawk Posts: 49 (11/2/01 7:40:30 pm) Re: I dunno, something.... No, CoL, but I'm gonna get another tape of Lain, if it's available, maybe that'll clear SOMETHING up for me. Bane Nathos Hawk Posts: 49 (11/2/01 8:52:22 pm) Re: I dunno, something.... I haven't seen that one but when i saw i think it is called Princess or Prince Moneroke or something like that i was amazed it rocks IcyBrian  Hollywood Dragon Posts: 434 (11/2/01 9:07:22 pm) ezSupporter Re: I dunno, something.... Nah, Lain and Princess Mononoke are two entirely different things. RockinEli Hawk Posts: 13 (12/4/01 12:17:00 am) Invader Zim Times Hey! I Love Invader Zim, I usually don't catch it, but it's on Nick around 9:00...But...why is the topic Invader Zim in the Anime Section. Is this considered Anime? Shiro X Hawk Posts: 11 (12/6/01 12:14:22 pm) Re: Why is anime so special? No, it's not. They're just compairing anime to 'Western' animation. Zim's just one of the ones they like from America.